Discuss: NHTSA Probes Tesla’s Robotaxi Plans; Seeks Answers on FSD in Poor Weather

[Not a Tesla App]

NHTSA reaches out to Tesla in a public letter, requesting key information and data on the Robotaxi network launch and how Tesla intends to address safety.… Read More

NHTSA Probes Tesla’s Robotaxi Plans; Seeks Answers on FSD in Poor Weather

NHTSA reaches out to Tesla in a public letter, requesting key information and data on the Robotaxi network launch and how Tesla intends to address safety.

www.notateslaapp.com

 

[K.I.T.T.]

I'm with NHTSA on this one.
The fact that they have asked twice speaks by itself: the first answer was insufficient.

The Vision sensor stack is simply missing redundant systems.

Should have at least lidar or radar for backup in low visibility operation, before going full unsupervised and having the responsibility of passengers.

 

[Procal]

I'm with NHTSA on this one.
The fact that they have asked twice speaks by itself: the first answer was insufficient.

The Vision sensor stack is simply missing redundant systems.

Should have at least lidar or radar for backup in low visibility operation, before going full unsupervised and having the responsibility of passengers.

While I agree to an extent, I think the better solution would be to just stop the service temporarily until those conditions clear. Similar to airline flights, there isn't really a reason that they can't put a pause on service until weather clears enough for the current suite of sensors to function properly. I don't know about you, but I live in South Florida, and I have had FSD engaged in extremely rainy conditions with no issues. I have even used it during pretty heavy fog, albeit probably not as heavy as some northern states. The only thing I haven't encountered with FSD is snow, which I would imagine is basically the worst of the three. But again, I think the solution is ideally to just pause service until the weather clears enough for the system to be able to confidently navigate. If this can't be done, then I guess Tesla will have to figure out how to reintroduce radar into their system. But being that it would likely require a massive retraining effort to add new sensors, I am highly doubtful that Tesla will change anything. Just look at how much more training is required now that the new Model Y comes with a front bumper camera.

 

[K.I.T.T.]

Similar to airline flights, there isn't really a reason that they can't put a pause on service until weather clears enough for the current suite of sensors to function properly.

That's my point. Aircraft can fly in IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions) because they have redundant equipment to do so. Anything, really anything but vision, which is in fact the last resource you should be using when flying as it can be highly misleading.

You name it (I simplify on purpose, for all other pilots reading): radio assistance beacons, GPS, can land with zero visibility down to the runway with precision approach equipment guiding the aircraft on predetermined glideslopes, weather radar for avoiding convective clouds and thunderstorms (and mapping terrain), have procedures for terrain separation in zero visibility operation and are obviously controlled by radar operators for separation by other traffic, plus anti-collision capabilities via transponder (TCAS).

However, I'm talking about marginal conditions, obviously in zero visibility you wouldn't be able to drive manual, so robo taxies privy of radars should indeed stop. Relying only on vision makes me uncomfortable when marginal, that's my point.

I don't know about you, but I live in South Florida, and I have had FSD engaged in extremely rainy conditions with no issues.

That's key. You live where these cars have been designed, even trained. Your roads are another thing, where cities are built around roads, not the other way 'round. Try driving in Europe, around ancient cities, coast lines, mountains, etc.

 

[Procal]

That's my point. Aircraft can fly in IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions) because they have redundant equipment to do so. Anything, really anything but vision, which is in fact the last resource you should be using when flying as it can be highly misleading.

You name it (I simplify on purpose, for all other pilots reading): radio assistance beacons, GPS, can land with zero visibility down to the runway with precision approach equipment guiding the aircraft on predetermined glideslopes, weather radar for avoiding convective clouds and thunderstorms (and mapping terrain), have procedures for terrain separation in zero visibility operation and are obviously controlled by radar operators for separation by other traffic, plus anti-collision capabilities via transponder (TCAS).

However, I'm talking about marginal conditions, obviously in zero visibility you wouldn't be able to drive manual, so robo taxies privy of radars should indeed stop. Relying only on vision makes me uncomfortable when marginal, that's my point.


That's key. You live where these cars have been designed, even trained. Your roads are another thing, where cities are built around roads, not the other way 'round. Try driving in Europe, around ancient cities, coast lines, mountains, etc.

To be fair, I don't think it is entirely unreasonable what the NHTSA is doing or requesting of Tesla. I wholeheartedly agree with them that safety is of the upmost importance, especially for driverless vehicles. And if it makes my car better in the end, I am all for it. I even think that Tesla should be more open with a lot of their safety related information regarding FSD. What I have was trying to say was more along the lines of knowing Tesla's history regarding FSD and how ambitious they are when they want to get something out into the public. They likely won't change anything meaningfully unless things go wrong, which is concerning. But it also means, that if things do go wrong, it isn't looking good for even regular FSD customers.