Discuss: Tesla to Remove Window Auto-Close Features Due to New Regulations

PrescottAZRichard

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Oct 28, 2022
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Well, that’s gonna get a *lot* of backlash. NHTSA had better explain how this is gonna stop thousands of deaths and injuries to remove such useful / convenient features IMO.
 
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RNHurt

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As far as I can tell this is a really old requirement (Jan 2017) and hasn't been updated since. Why is this coming up now? If I'm reading it rightly, this should/will affect many, many vehicles other than Tesla. Which car built in the last 5 years doesn't have one-push window close without automatic reversal functionality? I could definitely open / close the windows in my 2018 Honda Odyssey from 13 stories up; I've done it multiple times!

Besides, all of the Tesla windows are capable of detecting something obstructing the movement of the window and stopping or reversing. Wasn't there was a recent update where they had to adjust it because it was too sensitive and causing the windows to stop and reverse when they didn't need to?

I use the walk-away auto-close functionality on my Tesla daily (in the summer time) and would be very disappointed if it were to be removed. Maybe remote updates are not such a good thing after all. 😞
 
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Hagg6

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Oct 6, 2022
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Tesla took away the ability to open the windows with the fob in mid 2014. Apparently, it was too risky since somebody sitting on the fob could accidentally cause the interior to get wet in the rain. Then they took the same button press and used it to initiate summon.

I can understand setting all these capabilities off by default, and telling users that if they turn them on, they should not use them when not watching the car. That's how my garage door works. I push a button on the wall, I am expected to keep watching the door until it's closed, and it's my responsibility. Auto reverse will sense pressure if the optical sensors miss something, but it could still cause injury so people are expected to watch.

Blaming the car because somebody closed a window without looking makes no sense. I could reach for the button on the armrest while looking at a passenger and chatting away. There is such a thing as responsibility. If I park my car with the roof vented, then the only way it could hurt somebody is if the person climbed on top of the car and stuck fingers through the opening, or if I locked somebody in the car. It's a bit absurd, but might be a moot point since Tesla no longer puts sliding panels on the roof.

Hopefully this won't affect cars already on the road, since rules aren't supposed to be retroactive, but they could slap Tesla for fixing something in existing cars.
 

Hagg6

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Oct 6, 2022
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As far as I can tell this is a really old requirement (Jan 2017) and hasn't been updated since. Why is this coming up now? If I'm reading it rightly, this should/will affect many, many vehicles other than Tesla. Which car built in the last 5 years doesn't have one-push window close without automatic reversal functionality? I could definitely open / close the windows in my 2018 Honda Odyssey from 13 stories up; I've done it multiple times!

Besides, all of the Tesla windows are capable of detecting something obstructing the movement of the window and stopping or reversing. Wasn't there was a recent update where they had to adjust it because it was too sensitive and causing the windows to stop and reverse when they didn't need to?

I use the walk-away auto-close functionality on my Tesla daily (in the summer time) and would be very disappointed if it were to be removed. Maybe remote updates are not such a good thing after all. 😞
The feature goes back much further than that. The problem was that in the 1970s, when most windows had cranks, those with electric windows had a switch that toggled from side to side. Pushing it toward the door made the window go up. So theoretically, falling against the door and window could have caused huge damage or death. On modern cars, the switches go up and down. So if something or somebody fell on it, it would make the window go down. It's hard to conceive of how a person could accidentally fall on that type of button and make the window go up.

Although it's possible to pull up on the button on the armrest and then look away as somebody puts an arm through the window, it's also possible to keep a finger on the button and look away.
 
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coolsilver

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Jan 8, 2023
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This regulation seems like bullshit. I know my previous Ford Fusion could open and close the windows from the fob. Granted you have to be within distance for it to work. No accessory power or on position needed. I don't even remember the windows having an reverse on obstruction feature.
 
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jeadly

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Dec 22, 2022
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Thank god !
Sorry for you guys ! :(
But don't worry we have our own package of stupid laws, just look at how auto summon is restricted in Europe and you'll understand
I makes zero sense that I can make my car turn on and drive over to me in a parking lot, but I can't have the windows open or close an inch from the same distance.
 
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RNHurt

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As if regulations made sense in the first place xD
I think at one point they made sense, but not any more. Back in the day it was quite easy to roll a window up and smash fingers and arms. However, today's systems are so sophisticated that it's almost an impossibility today. Multiple systems would have to simultaneously fail in unique ways for fingers to get pinched.

There's more more danger in closing doors on a hand than closing windows on one. Back in the 70's it was not uncommon for someone you know to have a horror story or two about how they got a hand smashed in a car door. My sister got her finger wedged in a car door and they couldn't open the door because of the pressure. That was a bad day.
 
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Legendary

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I think at one point they made sense, but not any more. Back in the day it was quite easy to roll a window up and smash fingers and arms. However, today's systems are so sophisticated that it's almost an impossibility today. Multiple systems would have to simultaneously fail in unique ways for fingers to get pinched.

There's more more danger in closing doors on a hand than closing windows on one. Back in the 70's it was not uncommon for someone you know to have a horror story or two about how they got a hand smashed in a car door. My sister got her finger wedged in a car door and they couldn't open the door because of the pressure. That was a bad day.
I get where you're coming from.
Hope your sister recovered from it without too much injury.
It's just that today's regulations are made in a stupid way.
In Europe the summon feature has a max range of 6m and you need to be able to see the car. And there is a maximum distance that the car can drive without a driver of 20m. Why 6m ? Why 20m ? It sure looks like they played a lottery to find these numbers.
I can get on and on about regulations but you got the point :p
 
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Hagg6

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I makes zero sense that I can make my car turn on and drive over to me in a parking lot, but I can't have the windows open or close an inch from the same distance.
It comes down to whether or not the government can regulate what you can do with the car on private property as opposed to functions of the car that need to meet safety standards.
 

PrescottAZRichard

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FWIW- in 10 yrs of law enforcement in a rural county of AZ I have two memories of very young kids being killed by roll up windows. One sticks out in particular because two small kids were left in a car (or more likely a truck) while the driver was outside the car & closing a gate. One of the kids apparently rolled up the window on the other kid crushing his windpipe. This was a kid too young to be doing it on purpose (to kill that is) but old enough to be out of a seat belt or car seat. Or maybe not, I just remember the mom in the Emergency Department being suicidal.

My Dalmatian also rolled up a window on her neck but that was the old style rocker switch where you push down on the back to roll up the window. I can’t speak to the switches where the kids were killed. The dog was okay, my parents were driving her around and thought they killed my dog for a few minutes. Startling, but no harm done.

Those rocker switches were around for a while before the ones where you have to pull the switch up to have the window go up. Regulations exist to protect everyone, I bet most are a result of lawsuits from incidents like those I described.

Since Tesla cars have a cabin camera and other tech perhaps there can be a visual check and audio warning / listen for a response before rolling up windows from anywhere but inside the car.
 
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Legendary

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Regulations exist to protect everyone
I beg to differ.
SOME regulations exist to protect everyone, not all of them. Some were made very comprehensively and are here to actually protect people, some just don't.
I never knew the old switches, but what I can tell is that a few months ago I couldn't put up the windows of my Model 3 because there was some water on them (it was raining), and the water created some resistance preventing the windows from rolling up.
 

Hagg6

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Oct 6, 2022
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FWIW- in 10 yrs of law enforcement in a rural county of AZ I have two memories of very young kids being killed by roll up windows. One sticks out in particular because two small kids were left in a car (or more likely a truck) while the driver was outside the car & closing a gate. One of the kids apparently rolled up the window on the other kid crushing his windpipe. This was a kid too young to be doing it on purpose (to kill that is) but old enough to be out of a seat belt or car seat. Or maybe not, I just remember the mom in the Emergency Department being suicidal.

My Dalmatian also rolled up a window on her neck but that was the old style rocker switch where you push down on the back to roll up the window. I can’t speak to the switches where the kids were killed. The dog was okay, my parents were driving her around and thought they killed my dog for a few minutes. Startling, but no harm done.

Those rocker switches were around for a while before the ones where you have to pull the switch up to have the window go up. Regulations exist to protect everyone, I bet most are a result of lawsuits from incidents like those I described.

Since Tesla cars have a cabin camera and other tech perhaps there can be a visual check and audio warning / listen for a response before rolling up windows from anywhere but inside the car.
No law can stop anybody from doing this on purpose, but having windows that reverse based on pressure and the current style of switches can prevent a lot of accidents. This particular action goes after people who just want to close a window remotely that was left open a few inches, in case somebody pokes fingers in on purpose. But the windows are supposed to sense that. There's a recall for that exact item, and it might make sense to disable to feature temporarily, but it makes more sense to me to tell car owners to use the feature while they are watching the car.
 

RNHurt

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And we have to remember that no amount of rules and regulations will make cars (or any other complex machine) 100% safe is all circumstances. At some point you have to be responsible for your actions.
 
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Hagg6

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And we have to remember that no amount of rules and regulations will make cars (or any other complex machine) 100% safe is all circumstances. At some point you have to be responsible for your actions.
True, but cars are the only item where manufacturers are held responsible for things outside of normal use. You aren't likely going to get far suing your toaster's manufacturer if you smash it into a wall.