Discuss: Tesla Model Y L Beats Range Estimates in Real-World Test

Procal

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Jun 12, 2024
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This is great news, because it shows Tesla is still always working on making their vehicles more efficient. However, efficiency is only one part of the equation, and one of the bigger factors that is often left out of any Tesla discussion is the poor charging speeds (charge curve) and thermal management/battery degradation. If they had that kind of efficiency and could do 400kW of charging or even just keep the current 250kW maximum but hold that maximum longer than only the 5% to 15% part of the battery, then that would be a game changer. Imagine if you could charge at 250kW all the way to at least 50%, where it then starts to taper off slowly until it reaches 80% or 100%. This would mean you could probably cut charging times by half or more depending on other factors, which would be amazing for quick top-ups, road trips, or even people who don't have access to home charging.

I also mentioned thermal management, because often one of the bigger things that holds back higher charging speed is indeed how quickly the battery heat soaks and starts throttling charging speed. This means that in hotter climates, you may never even see 250 kW charging speeds and potentially not even 200 kW depending on ambient temperatures.

The last part is battery degradation. Tesla doesn't have horrible degradation, but it also isn't a leader in the space and actually falls somewhere in the middle of the pack (pun intended) when compared to other EVs. The ones that actually hold the top spots for the least amount of battery degradation over time are actually Kia and, I believe, Hyundai with their E-GPM platform.

If they could improve those 3 aspects of their cars, they would be an easy choice over many other EVs, but with the competition slowly catching up and in some areas actually surpassing them, I'm afraid they are already behind in these regards.
 
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TESLASUPERFAN

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Those are big asks , in reality producing a battery design for longevity, durability and speed just isn’t economical at this time.

Ultimately, it comes down to consistent revenue streams and that’s where everyone is heading towards. Yes there are lots of other streams they rely on, but making a lifetime part that is immune to degradation I.e. “we’re not seeing any additional income” is not economically optimal.

I’m aware everyone would want a part like this, reliability word of mouth alone would rake in income.

In time, they will reach such a battery and figure out best way to extract a revenue stream, the simplest way is to no longer offer he option to purchase ANY VEHICLE. They will ONLY offer a subscription based vehicle.

The only option to counteract that subscription model would fall on the competition I.e. low sales.

While they figure all this out-someone’s beta testing hydrogen vehicles.
 

Procal

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2024
752
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Those are big asks , in reality producing a battery design for longevity, durability and speed just isn’t economical at this time.

Ultimately, it comes down to consistent revenue streams and that’s where everyone is heading towards. Yes there are lots of other streams they rely on, but making a lifetime part that is immune to degradation I.e. “we’re not seeing any additional income” is not economically optimal.

I’m aware everyone would want a part like this, reliability word of mouth alone would rake in income.

In time, they will reach such a battery and figure out best way to extract a revenue stream, the simplest way is to no longer offer he option to purchase ANY VEHICLE. They will ONLY offer a subscription based vehicle.

The only option to counteract that subscription model would fall on the competition I.e. low sales.

While they figure all this out-someone’s beta testing hydrogen vehicles.
I'd push back on the premise that this isn't economical yet because the parts I described aren't hypothetical; they're already shipping on mass-market cars.

Edmunds (same outlet as the range test in the OP) runs a standardized real-world charging test, and the Model 3 LR lands 10th, sustaining roughly 136 kW on a 250 kW stall. Six of the top ten are Hyundai/Kia, with the Ioniq 6 at the top and E-GMP cars consistently pulling 200 kW or more. That's not a peak-number game; it's the area under the curve, which is what actually determines how long you're standing at the charger.

On degradation, the Carla study published this summer looked at ~10,000 battery tests: the Kia e-Niro and Hyundai Kona at ~97% retention after 100,000 km, and the Kia EV6 third. Tesla's best result was the CATL LFP Model 3 at ~93.3%; the Model Y came in 18th at ~92.2%. Middle of the pack is, if anything, generous. (Fair caveat: that's Swedish data, and a cool climate isn't the same test a hot one is.)

And the two are linked; thermal management is what lets you hold a flat curve without cooking the cells, which is the same thing that protects capacity long term. Kia and Hyundai didn't solve three separate problems; they solved one well.

Where I'll agree with you: incentives are a real force, and I'm not going to pretend they aren't. But "not economical" and "not profitable enough to bother" are different claims. Hyundai/Kia are selling this on cars cheaper than a Model Y and making money doing it. If it were purely a cost wall, the company with the most vertical integration in the industry would be clearing it. Instead, the Cybertruck, Tesla's first 800V vehicle, still has a curve that underwhelms at 350 kW stalls. That reads to me like an engineering priority problem, not an economics one.

The subscription-only future is a bigger leap than I'd make, though. Nobody's stopping selling cars because the battery got good.
 

TESLASUPERFAN

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Yet, NONE of those you mentioned have ANY subscriptions. The subscription model is coming, it has way too many advantages. The days of owning a car is nearing its lifespan. FSD, premium connectivity, super grok, your phone, your IP internet, people's rent, healthcare plan, car insurance, ride share---all PROVEN entities that are ALL SUB-SCRIP-TION. Lots more coming very soon but ok according to YOU the subscription thingy does not work..........LOL.

Are ALL of those all leaps.........its inevitable and arriving faster than U think. U dont have to agree, like it, feel free to protest......at the end of the day.....comes right back to economic streams. Microphone drop !!
 

PrescottAZRichard

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Oct 28, 2022
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Very happy to see the Y L outperforming. Hope they bring that same over achiever results to the Y Premium LR in the future.
FWIW- I'm seeing over achievements with my '26 S LR. After 13,800 miles I'm at under 218 wh/mile with about 31% supercharging which means about 31% driving on mountain highways. To get 'rated' I'd need 235.1 wh/mile so I'm very happy. My partner's Premium 3 RWD is also better than advertised.